Why did God give us the talents we have? Ultimately, they're for His glory. Often times, those same talents will benefit us as well, but they're first and foremost about Him. Let's say you're a carpenter. You have talent and skill that allows you to build a beautiful building. That building doesn't have to be a church to bring God glory. It would be great to use your abilities to build a place of worship, but whatever you build can glorify God if you do it in the right way. Wouldn't you agree? But, what if someone asked you to build a Mosque? Or a strip club? Or an abortion clinic? Would you still be glorifying God by using your talent to build those things? I don't think so.
What about the musician? On the one hand he has an opportunity to use his gift at a church that is bringing people every week into the marvelous light of God's love and grace and forgiveness. God is actually using His talent to help accomplish this! On the other hand there are bars and nightclubs where people go and drink alcohol until they get stupid and wreck their lives and destroy their families. Why would anyone choose to leave a setting where God is using his talent to bring people to Christ in order to take that talent and use it to entertain the drunkards destroying their lives. I will never understand this until my dying day!
The Bible tells us we are to come out from among them and be separate and touch not the unclean thing and He will be our God and we will be His people (2 Corinthians 6:17). I know that doesn't mean we drop out of every aspect of life on earth and live in a commune somewhere. However, there's got to be a place that this commandment fits into our every day lives: Perhaps like in building mosques and playing nightclubs.
This is very good Jeff i agree with you 100% keep up the good work
ReplyDeletevery interesting comparison!!
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Great way to explain it.
ReplyDeleteAs a carpenter, if building that night club will put food on the table, then so be it. You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Bless your little heart.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - You go ahead and keep food on your table by building strip clubs and abortion clinics, and I'll trust God that He will provide work that will not require me to facilitate that kind of garbage. Are you going to be the guy that builds the mosque at Ground Zero? The point here is there are times where we have to draw a line. Whatever I do, I'll do it with enough courage to leave my name attached.
ReplyDeletePastor, I totally agree that lines have to be drawn somewhere. However, the word of God should be the only definitive authority on exactly where those lines are drawn. The Scriptures clearly leave a lot to personal conscience.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't believe that religious authorities are endowed with the right to decide where the lines are. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. And even though I hold your opinion in very high esteem, I wouldn't take it as authoritative.
And like I said, I am very much in agreement with you that anyone with a conscience should be aware of what they are using their talents, time, and money to support. I just think that when it comes to specifics, there should be some freedom of conscience. If someone wants to help build a mosque, and in their mind and heart they are living out Jesus's command to bless and do good to your enemies, they should not be condemned for such actions.
Ken - Thanks for weighing in. I would never try to be anyone's Holy Spirit. Ultimately we all have to answer to God for how we use our gifts and talents. I'm simply saying, I personally don't see how someone using his talents for these kinds of things could bring any glory to God at all.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the main points that has not been mentioned here or on Facebook (Wow! You definitely hit a nerve there, but I applaud you.) is that the people that stand on that platform, like it or not, are held to a higher standard than those filling the seats.
ReplyDeleteLet's just face the facts, by a musician or singer playing or singing at a night club, whether their heart's right or not (and I believe there are good Christians there), they are endorsing that lifestyle. Period. Along with sending a mixed message to those who might see them in both places (which, again, obviously shouldn't happen) and hence be confused because of what standard they see Christians should have (you know, the whole "stumbling block" and "millstone" thing). And, the Christian musicians just inviting other Christians to bars is ridiculous.
So, really it has nothing to do with the conditions of the musician's heart, it has to do with their influence ... both good and bad.
But, it's not only the musicians, it's all of us. They're just the visible ones.
Very thought-provoking Pastor Jeff, especially the part about trusting God to provide us with avenues to use our gifts in good ways. it seems to me that some of the people (i think of keith green) who have had the most impact were those who were willing to lay aside their talents for a time until God was able to show them exactly how to use them rightly. they usually didn't make everyone happy, but they pleased God.
ReplyDeleteWHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH? YOU ARE COMPARING BUILDING A MOSQUE AND MUSICIANS PLAYING IN NIGHT CLUBS. THIS IS SOUNDING PRETTY LEGALISTIC. SO, I AM SURE YOU HAVE HEARD OF JARS OF CLAY OR PERHAPS BACK IN THE DAY YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THEM PLAY. THEY PLAYED IN BARS. THEY WERE A CHRISTAIN BAND PLAYING IN BARS ,"USING THEIR TALENT TO ENTERTAIN THE DRUNKARDS DESTROYING THEIR LIVES". WERE THEY NOT GLORIFYING GOD? WERE PEOPLE'S LIVES NOT CHANGED WHEN THEY WENT TO A JARS OF CLAY SHOW? THEY WERE USING THEIR TALENT, THAT GOD GAVE THEM, TO REACH THOSE WHO WOULD NOT HAVE STEPPED FOOT INTO A CHURCH. THEIR SONGS WERE NOT HAVE CLEARLY ,DEFINED, RELIGIOUS LYRICS EITHER. THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO GIVE AN ALTER CALL FOR PEOPLE'S LIVES TO BE CHANGED. SO, I GUESS THEY ARE GOING TO HELL , BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT USING THEIR TALENTS IN THE CHURCH AND THEY WERE IN THE PRESENCE OF DRUNKARDS.
ReplyDeleteWHERE DOES THE LINE END? SO, I GUESS YOU CANNOT GO TO APPLEBEE'S ANYMORE OR EAT DOWNTOWN BECAUSE THOSE ARE ALL BARS THAT SELL TO DRUNKERS. SO, WHERE DOES IT END? OH,THE NEVER ENDING LEGALISTIC CYCLE.
Not everyone can be a Pastor of a large church who makes at least 100k a year. A carpenter builds buildings for a living. It is that simple. It is his job. By the way the above anonymous writer said nothing about building strip clubs and abortion clinics. The writer said,"As a carpenter, if building that night club will put food on the table, then so be it." A night club does not mean a strip club. The writer didn't even say anything about building an abortion clinic. The writer didn't even state his or her gender,either. You can't make assumptions. This entire blog is based off assumptions. Well, I guess I will just have to grab one scripture and apply everything I believe to that scripture and then tell eveyone else they are wrong for not believing what I believe.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous #2 (I assume) - The blog isn't based on assumptions as much as it's based on (1) A hypothetical and (2) How one feels about something. The hypothetical has to do with carpenters and musicians. (They can be male or female.) Did God give them the talents and abilities they have to just make money or to ultimately give Him glory? And if those gifts are primarily given to bring God glory then should he/she use them in a setting that would never bring Him glory (i.e - The strip club or the abortion clinic). These were examples I had used in my original post that anonymous #1 was responding to in a way that implied it doesn't matter what you build, just get paid! I can't agree with that logic. I haven't always pastored a large church and I haven't always made the kind of money you assume I make. But I have always tried to live with convictions. I'm not trying to tell everyone they're wrong - However, I do try to lead people to live by their convictions as well.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous #3 - If you knew me you would know I am not legalistic at all. I hate legalism! However, as I said in the blog, you HAVE to draw a line somewhere! Yet anytime you do - you're labeled legalistic! I love Jars of Clay and I wish all the musicians I were referring to in the blog were playing clubs for the purpose of evangelism. I would have NO PROBLEM with that whatsoever! But take it a step further! Don't be subtle! Say what we believe loud and clear. If you can take a band into a night club and use that gift in that setting to reach people for Christ than I'm all for it. Where does it all end? I don't know that. But, it can't be an anything goes mentality! For instance: If I needed a job and all I could find was a job at Applebees and part of my job was selling beer and wine on the menu to diners I could do that. But I could never take a bar tending job at a nightclub. It's two different things! For me, that's where the line has to be drawn. Legalism? I don't think so - I believe it's the application of the convictions I have because what the Bible teaches about drunkenness.
ReplyDeleteYou know,
ReplyDeleteJesus was a carpenter, as well as his earthly father, Joseph. I wonder if Jesus ever built a chair or a bed that was used in a club, or possibly in a house where a prostitute resides to run her business. I wonder if he ever built a house, or a building that was used for something sinful, other than a church? You can build a church, and sin will still reside inside those walls.
As a business man, if I ran an add that said, "I only build churches"...would I be able to support a family? No. When you play golf or hunt, are you bringing glory to God? No, you are obviously sinning, because what you are doing is not bringing glory to God.
Fine line here...that's all I'm saying.
Anonymous #4 - If you read the blog you would realize that I made it clear that one doesn't have to only build churches (as a carpenter) or play hymns (as a musician) to glorify God with their talent. I simply was making the point that there has to be a line where you use those talents. (Hence the references to mosques, strip clubs and abortion clinics.) My question/challenge was - Don't use your gifts to build something you know will be used for something destructive! Sometimes you won't know that ahead of time. New example - those who make firearms. Guns are important, but you wouldn't purposefully sell one to someone you knew was going to use it to commit crimes! I understand these are fine lines. But they're lines and they need to be drawn and we need to truly seek God's heart about where to draw them. Thanks everyone for weighing in!
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